Re: The Bottle Imp: 5450 words: 25690 words in total

Nice to see you, Maria!
First of all, thank you very much for your reply and advice.

Let me explain.
As well as you, I think I do know how it is important
not to think Japanese when reading English.
So I do;
1) read English firstly
2) when I met some good / funny / difficult sentences,
JUST DRAW LINE under it
3) when I come home, JUST WRITE DOWN the sentences
4) I added translate just for fun
I try to keep my English brain while I'm in phase (1)~(3),
and I launch my Translate brain just in phase 4).
And as you know, I translate only less than 1% of the entire book.
Do you still worry that my translation habit avoids me learning English?

(In addition, in the actual business scene,
your English ability will be evaluated
how you can translate / interpret well, you know...)

Anyway, I agree with you strongly
that the English brain is quite important for the learners.
So I start to write this record in English.
I want you to reply me in English if you would like.
It would be our good lesson ;)

Thank you very much again !

おはなみさんは[url:kb:9198]で書きました:

〉Nice to see you, Maria!

　　　Nice to see you, too, おはなみさん("-")

〉First of all, thank you very much for your reply and advice.

　　　I'm afraid beeing offensive to you....

〉Let me explain.
〉As well as you, I think I do know how it is important
〉not to think Japanese when reading English.
〉So I do;
〉 1) read English firstly
〉 2) when I met some good / funny / difficult sentences,
〉 JUST DRAW LINE under it
〉 3) when I come home, JUST WRITE DOWN the sentences
〉 4) I added translate just for fun
〉I try to keep my English brain while I'm in phase (1)~(3),
〉and I launch my Translate brain just in phase 4).
〉And as you know, I translate only less than 1% of the entire book.
〉Do you still worry that my translation habit avoids me learning English?

　　　Now I know your intention, so I never worry about YOU!
But would you please mind this BBS is "for beginners"　
who'd like to learn English by extensive reading.

〉(In addition, in the actual business scene,
〉 your English ability will be evaluated
〉 how you can translate / interpret well, you know...)

You must be right, so please do whatever you want,
and care for beginners here.
I couldn't appreciate your showing off Japanese
translation at this BBS.
I hope you'd find better place for your needs.

Happy Reading!

〉Anyway, I agree with you strongly
〉that the English brain is quite important for the learners.
〉So I start to write this record in English.
〉I want you to reply me in English if you would like.
〉It would be our good lesson ;)

〉Thank you very much again !

Maria,

Thank you for your kind advice to me.
Almost all this day, I had been thinking
whether I shall surrender to put my sentences
with my amature translation here or not.
And as a result, I hate to tell you,
but I want to forgive me to post the sentences
with my translation from now on too.

Let me explain.
1) I want to record with the impression of the book
- the new words/phrases
- the impressive expression
- the sentences that are hard to understand

2) I want to record how I could/couldn't understand them.
Poor my idea, I cannot find anything else but to put translations
as my understanding memo.

3) Now you kindly understand that
I keep to dismiss Japanese from the brain
while I was reading

4) The only worry that you currently have is that
the translations will make the junior learners uneasy, right?
But I don't think how harmful my silly/small translation would be.

5) You kindly suggested me to find somewhere else to post the translation.
I tried to find it but it was too troublesome
to post the impressions here and put the translations somewhere else.
It's rather nasty and I'm afraid that would make people feel worse.
I tried to launch my own blog or anything like that,
but to post here in the BBS is quite more handy to me.

6) To learn how to translate is important and great fun to me.
I will be a great help to read the book.

So I propose you;
1) I will put the sentences with translations in the seperate topic.

2) At the top of the topic, I will put the following note every time;
I WILL WRITE DOWN SOME SENTENCES FROM THE BOOK
AND PUT THE AMATURE TRANSLATION WITH IT.
IT WILL BE HARMFUL IF YOU ARE GOING TO READ THE BOOK.
AND THE TRANSLATION IS PURPOSED TO RECORD HOW I COULD / COULDN'T
UNDERSTAND THE SENTENCES.
IT MAY NOT BE RIGHT TRANCELATIONS.
DON'T REFER TO IT TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS.
NOTE THAT TRANSLATE EACH LINES WHILE YOU ARE READING ENGLISH
WILL MIGHT AVOID YOUR ENGLISH ABILITY.
THANK YOU.

3) I will put the 10 lines with star lile;
*
to put the translation away to the next page.

So how do you think?
I hope that I can remove your awareness with my propose.

At the end,
I want to tell you that how I love the idea SSS
and people with the same hope as me including you.
I hope you understand.

Please give me any suggestions freely.
(I ask the same thing to the other people too.)
Thank you very much in advance !

(The End Of The Topic)

Hello, おはなみさん。
I'm Raquel. I'm not the administrater, just an almost 5 years reader.
I don't mean to attack you, so please, please don't be offended.

This is my suggestion.

"おはなみ"さんは[url:kb:9201]で書きました:

〉5) You kindly suggested me to find somewhere else to post the translation.
〉I tried to find it but it was too troublesome
〉to post the impressions here and put the translations somewhere else.
〉It's rather nasty and I'm afraid that would make people feel worse.
〉I tried to launch my own blog or anything like that,
〉but to post here in the BBS is quite more handy to me.

Reading your continuous posts, I felt a little unconfortable
because you seemed to use this forum for your private 学習記録.
I don't think it proper.
This is public forum.
If you did them at 節目（語数報告）or just occacionally,
we wouldn't have minded at all. (I wouldn't)
But are you going to post like this, book by book?
If so, my suggestion is you have your own place for that purpose.
I know many people have blogs for that reason. (Me included)

We come here to share our joy of reading or worries for learning with others.
Specifically, at this 「ゼロからスタート！」 and 「めざせ100万語！」.
Did you read this guideline?

SSSの広場（掲示板）投稿についてのガイドライン(2004.07改訂)

■書き込みの三原則　「楽しく ・ 優しく ・ 思いやりを」　

　投稿者にのぞまれること

多くのタドキストは、次のような気持ちで参加していると思います。

・仲間の Happy Reading を応援したい
・仲間と情報交換がしたい
・区切りの語数報告をしたい
・区切りの語数報告をお祝いしてあげたい
・悩んでいる人がいたら助けてあげたい
・おもしろい本はみんなに教えてあげたい

どの広場でもこういう気持ちを、お互いに尊重してください。また、自分の目的にあった掲示板を選び、話題や内容を考えて投稿をしましょう。

・これまでの投稿にざっと目を通し（全てを読む必要はありません）、話の流れや雰囲気をつかんだ上で投稿しましょう。
・文字だけで情報を伝えるため、思わぬ誤解を受ける場合もありますので、ていねいな言葉づかいや表現を心がけましょう。
・一方的な内容の投稿や、一部の参加者にしか通じないような内輪話は避けましょう。
・本名を名乗らなくても、自分の発言に責任を持ちましょう。

このような事に気を付けて投稿するようにお願いします。

〉4) The only worry that you currently have is that
〉the translations will make the junior learners uneasy, right?
〉But I don't think how harmful my silly/small translation would be.

Well, translation itself might not be so harmful,
but beginners might feel intimidated by your post.
If I were a beginner, I would certainly be. ;)　

Sorry if I had wrong impressions.
I don't have any objection for translating nor denying your 多読 style.

Please have a happy reading！

Rachel,

Nice to see you !
Every comment is welcome !

〉Reading your continuous posts, I felt a little unconfortable

〉If you did them at 節目（語数報告）or just occacionally,
〉we wouldn't have minded at all. (I wouldn't)
〉But are you going to post like this, book by book?
〉If so, my suggestion is you have your own place for that purpose.
〉I know many people have blogs for that reason. (Me included)

Sure I want here to record my reading and it was natural to me.
I hope everybody will do the same and it would be fun.

Before I came, the last post was made 2007/8/20(15:26)
and the previous was 2007/7/30(14:48)
and previous was 2007/7/9(09:42).
Every topic was "I had reaced 100,000 today"
and every comment was "Congratulations".
And it doean't seem to me so active.

I like to see those people record what book they wrote everyday.
Is it harmful?

〉・仲間の Happy Reading を応援したい
〉・仲間と情報交換がしたい
〉・区切りの語数報告をしたい
〉・区切りの語数報告をお祝いしてあげたい
〉・悩んでいる人がいたら助けてあげたい
〉・おもしろい本はみんなに教えてあげたい

Well, I really had read it and I hope I see what it meant.
For me every book was worth to recommend you,
And for me every day of the last week was my epoch of life!
4 days before it was zero, but now it's 43000!
I believed that my reading essays could be
little help to the other readers,
I'm quite sad if you feel the other.

〉Well, translation itself might not be so harmful,
〉but beginners might feel intimidated by your post.
〉If I were a beginner, I would certainly be. ;)　

I intimidated begineers!
Is it real?
I'm quite sad if I did.
But I cannot believe it!

Maria and you seem to be veteran, so where are the begineers?
Do they keep silent, got afraid, intimidated by the invaders?
If so, very sorry...

As I wrote before, it's quite hard for me to launch a blog.
In the past I tried it for three times or so but failed.
I think it's not for me.

But this place seems not to be the right place...
I wondering what to do...
Anyway, I was so sorry to feel you bad.
I will stop any posting, while I will make people feel bad.
Because as you know, I always tried to make everyone feel good.
Thank you.

Hello, おはなみさん。 This is Raquel, just a reader.
I'm sorry if I sounded superior by my previous post.

My points were;

1. Your posts (record your reading, book by book) were personal thing.　This is not Your diary.
2. Doing personal doesn't seem proper here.

"おはなみ"さんは[url:kb:9205]で書きました:

〉Sure I want here to record my reading and it was natural to me.
〉I hope everybody will do the same and it would be fun.

Well, recording your reading is natural for everyone but not at the public forum.

〉Before I came, the last post was made 2007/8/20(15:26)
〉and the previous was 2007/7/30(14:48)
〉and previous was 2007/7/9(09:42).
〉Every topic was "I had reaced 100,000 today"
〉and every comment was "Congratulations".
〉And it doean't seem to me so active.

These forums are precisely for "congrats".
We come here for reports and cheers for each other.
I'm afraid if I hurt your feelings, but your posts gave me the impressions
that your reports were self-absorbed.
You didn't seem to need comments from others.

〉I like to see those people record what book they wrote everyday.
〉Is it harmful?

No, of course not at all.
We're doing it at our own blogs.

〉Well, I really had read it and I hope I see what it meant.
〉For me every book was worth to recommend you,
〉And for me every day of the last week was my epoch of life!
〉4 days before it was zero, but now it's 43000!
〉I believed that my reading essays could be
〉little help to the other readers,
〉I'm quite sad if you feel the other.

Oh, I feel so horrible that I made you sad. I'm sorry.
But might I point out that not every begginers are like you？
You are so good at English. I wowed seeing your swift switch to English.
Many of them were not good at English, though.
（I mean 「英語に苦手意識を持っている人が多い」）
I doubt they read your posts simply because they are written in English.

This is the reason that I think your posts were a little intimidating for the beginners.
They might think less of themselves.
We have lots of worries at first, so we might lost confidence.

〉Maria and you seem to be veteran, so where are the begineers?
〉Do they keep silent, got afraid, intimidated by the invaders?
〉If so, very sorry...

I think begginers first appear at 「はじめまして」 forum then move to 「めざせ」 forum.
I don't think they keep silence there.

Actually まりあさん is one of the administrators (or founder of SSS　？） here.
So I think you should follow her advice.
If she thinks you should find other places for your posts,
your posts were not appropriate here, and I agree with her.
Believe me, I'm here almost 5 years and have read many many posts.
Now I'm intimidating, I'm sorry.

〉As I wrote before, it's quite hard for me to launch a blog.
〉In the past I tried it for three times or so but failed.

I'm sorry to hear that.
Do you have any mixy friends？　Posting at mixi is very easy.

〉But this place seems not to be the right place...
〉I wondering what to do...

Well, we have other forums here.
So why don't you do your posts at 「Chat with friends in English」 or 「本のこと何でも」forum？
I thinks your previous posts would have sit there very well.

〉Anyway, I was so sorry to feel you bad.
〉I will stop any posting, while I will make people feel bad.

Oh, please don't say such a thing.
We didn't feel bad by your posts！
Come again at your any 語数報告, and let us say "Congratulations" to you.

Happy reading！

Hello,おはなみさん and Raquelさん

〉1. Your posts (record your reading, book by book) were personal thing.　This is not Your diary.

　　　SSS book review system is offering 読書履歴記録 also.

〉2. Doing personal doesn't seem proper here.

〉"おはなみ"さんは[url:kb:9205]で書きました:

〉〉Sure I want here to record my reading and it was natural to me.
〉〉I hope everybody will do the same and it would be fun.

　　　Many of doing SSS Extensive Reading record their reading
　　　in 読書記録手帳, others use Excel file or fill in 読書履歴記録.
       　 

〉Well, recording your reading is natural for everyone but not at the public forum.

      I agree to Raquel's opinion.

〉〉Maria and you seem to be veteran, so where are the begineers?

      I'm afraid begineers has fled or hesitated to come in.
      It's the reason why Raquel and I ask you quitting your
      posting here.

      Please be aware that you didn't get any replies from
      begginers.
      Have you browsed through other postings? 
      "Everyone get some replies", is mainstream here.
      Would you please think about why you are an isolated example.
      Don't you feel sad?
      Sadness isn't useful for your studying English, I'm worrying
      about.
   
〉〉As I wrote before, it's quite hard for me to launch a blog.
〉〉In the past I tried it for three times or so but failed.

     I'm sorry about that, but it doesn't allow you any apology
     to exploit the public BBS as a private diary, I think.
     Don't you try to ask how to launch a blog at「SSS 雑談の掲示板」?
     Many of SSS readers including me, senior age, have their own  
     blog.  

     I don't have any intention to refuse your posting.
     I recommend you to go 「Chat with friends in English」 forum.
     In there you may be able to get replies, as long as your 
     postings are book reports.

     Be aware Japanese translation is never welcomed.  

     I'm not an administrator of this BBS, 古川さん is.
     古川さん can move all your previous postings to 
    「Chat with friends in English」 forum if you'd like.  　
     
     I have one more request to you to avoid All Capital Letter
     sentences like in #9203 posting. I feel it's very threatening.

     I hope you'd do happy chatting at 「Chat with friends in English」.

おはなみさん、ほかのみなさんへ

ゼロからスタートまずは１０万語

の掲示板は、

１０万語までの経過報告
１０万語読んで感じた、多読への疑問や感想の投稿
それに対する励ましや回答

を目的に作られています。１冊ごとの読書報告を
投稿していただくことは、申し訳ありませんが、
この掲示板の趣旨に反していると思います。

まりあさん、Racquelさんの意見と私も同意見です。

個人的な１冊づつの読書記録は、
個人のブログ等でお願いします。

掲示板管理人

Okay Everybody.
I hate to tell you but I must say goodbye.

- I feel the BBS are too many and the rule are too complicated to me.
"First you write in the 'How do you do' board ..."
"Then you take care to write nothing but the number reporting in the 'number reporting' board ..."
"Use the English board when you speak English ..."
or anything like that.
I'm too fool to use so many boards at the same time.

- I tried to use mixi but I failed.
But it was too complecated with the concept.
As you say, some are good at English but the others are not.
So you see, some are good at Computer but the others are not.
I hoped you take care of me who is not good at computer like you.
I'm afraid you have the double standard.

- I feel you seem quite unfriendly to say
"If you want to write a diary, launch your own blog!"
"Or else to save it in your local Excel and enjoy it on your own"
I propose you to share the diary in the board.
I wrote my impression,
and I want to hear the other's impression to my topic
and the other's impression who read the book.
I wrote my questions as well.
I wanted someone to kindly tell me the answer.
Is this the wrong thing?

- You are pointing me that
I don't respect any other users and just speak to yourself
but this is quite far from the reality.
I can never accept this claim.
As you see, I love your comment and I replied each of them
with as much care as I can.
I feel so sad if you cannot see what I meant.

- I wonder why can you be so sure
"This BBS is for XXX purpose"
"To learn English you have to do XXX"
and order to the others.
Just leave as they are enjoying theirselves!
I'm quite sure that enjoying is the highest priority.

- I wonder why you keep asking me
'You have to care the beginners'
What beginners?
I'm one of the begineers that I started reading 5 days ago!
I hoped you care me before you ask me.
I'm afraid you have double standard again.

I heard the story;
An american girl who could play baseball well
came Japan and entered a Japanese University and its baseball club.
She tried to be a good teammate but she couldn't.
She left the university and the team with sadness.
She left the word;
"In Japanese baseball team, there are only hierachy between
the elders and the juniors. They don't have the friendship."

I don't like to tell you but I'm afraid that you are so Japanese.
You take much priority;
- the old order in your village
- the strict rules
- the elder's word
and to keep your precious things,
you are not afraid to ruin
some junior's willingness and hope and joy
who had just started learning,
knowing few rules,
just happy and willing to read and be a friend of you.

Today, I tried to start reading a new book
but the sadness came to me and I could not keep reading.
I hope I could forget about the board
with the elders too strict for me
and start my reading again all alone.

So feel ease,
this rude junior will go away and the village will be safe again.

In the end,
I want to say thank you to all who read my articles
and gave me some comment.
I hope you believe that I thank you from the deep in my heart.
Happy reading !

(The End Of The Topic)

Hello again, おはなみさん

〉- I feel the BBS are too many and the rule are too complicated to me.

      I somewhat think so, too. But there are so many postings
      in whole SSS BBS. Traffic controlling is innevitable,
      not good enough though...
      
〉- I tried to use mixi but I failed.
〉  But it was too complecated with the concept.
〉  As you say, some are good at English but the others are not.
〉  So you see, some are good at Computer but the others are not.

      If you want to be a business English expert, who can also do 
      a translator or an interpreter roll (as you said in #9199
      posting) , computer legitimacy must be essential.
      余計なお世話かも知れませんが．．． 
     
〉- I wonder why can you be so sure
〉  "This BBS is for XXX purpose"
〉  "To learn English you have to do XXX"

       You see on the top page
       SSS英語学習法は、「多読（Extensive Reading）」を中心に、
       リスニングやシャドウイングなども併用して英語を習得する
       方法です。
  
       SSS BBS don't cover all the English learning way.
       I only say "To learn English by SSS extensive reading,
       you might be well do XXX"

〉- I wonder why you keep asking me
〉  'You have to care the beginners'
〉  What beginners?

       English learning beginners who starts reading by  
       Oxford Reading Tree ( English text books for 5 or 6
       year olds), I Can Read Book (books for infants) and so on.

       There are many who can read paperbacks also, they are
       cahtting at「英語のことなんでも」forum or offering advice
       for beginners at any other forums.

〉  I hoped you care me before you ask me.

       I cared you as an SSS Extensive Reading beginner by #9197
       posting, but it seems you aren't satisfied as an advanced
       English learner.  

       I never order or rule to anyone, I offer advice who want me
       for.
       If you don't want to accept #9197, it's O.K., I don't speak
       to you any further.

       Be happy your English lreaning way.
        
        

英語で投稿したいかたの部屋です。

おはなみさんが楽しく英語の本を読み、
みなさんにそのことを伝えたいと考えてらっしゃることに、
僕は共感しています。

1冊ごとの記録をどう行なえば良いのかは
しばらく一緒に考えていきましょう。

http://tinyurl.com/2w9rog

Ryotasan、お申し出をありがとうございます。
同じ失敗を繰り返さないために、とりあえずその掲示板だけは全発言に目を通してから発言させていただきます。
２〜３日中には、何らかの発言をさせていただきます。
とりあえず、本当にありがとうございます!